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Thread: Mormonism, LDS, Utah, Joseph Smith & "Bring 'Um Young"

  1. #21

    Re: Mormonism, LDS, Utah, Joseph Smith & "Bring 'Um Young"

    Black Mormons Resist Apology Talk
    By Bill Broadway / May 30, 1998

    A panel of five African Americans surprised members of the Mormon History Association in Washington last weekend by arguing against an effort to force an apology from Mormon leaders for the church's former racist doctrines -- an effort, the panel said, that would be a "detriment" to church work and a catalyst to further racial misunderstanding.

    "There is no pleasure in old news, and this news is old," Bryan E. Powell, a mortgage broker from Suitland, said in response to a paper urging the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to rid itself of "an unresolved legacy of the nineteenth century."

    The legacy, recounted in a 45-minute presentation at the association's annual meeting, was a onetime belief that blacks were spiritually inferior to whites and should be excluded from priesthood, a position achieved by most Mormon men. Mormonism has no paid clergy and relies on a laity with broad-based powers to lead worship and perform such sacraments as baptisms, ordinations and infant blessings.

    "What the brother read here is a detriment to my race and to my church," said Theodore Newkirk Jr., a "high priest" of the church and first president of the recently organized Capitol Hill Branch. "We must put an end to this information fast."

    Like other denominations, Mormonism -- organized in 1830 -- once taught that blacks were descendants of Cain, Adam and Eve's son who was banished after murdering his brother Abel, and of Ham, Noah's son who broke a taboo when he looked at the nude body of his drunken father. In what became known as the "curse of Ham," Noah condemned to slavery the descendants of Ham's son Canaan.

    Mormon theology added the belief that blacks embodied spirits that had fought on God's side in a celestial battle of Good vs. Evil but had performed "less valiantly."

    Powell said that the church, which has about 48,000 Washington area members, rejected its earlier teachings on race two decades ago, when leaders proclaimed that "all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color."

    But as the June 6 anniversary of that proclamation approaches, some white and black Mormons have pressed for an outright admission that past teachings on race were erroneous.

    Tensions increased last week after an unnamed source leaked documents to the Los Angeles Times, which reported that "key leaders" at the church's Salt Lake City headquarters were debating a proposal on whether to publicly disavow the church's earlier teachings on race. The office of President Gordon Hinckley, whom Mormons consider a prophet, released a statement denying that he and his counselors are considering such a proposal.

    "Since the 1978 revelation granting the priesthood to all worthy males, millions of people of all races have embraced the restored gospel of Jesus Christ," the statement said. "[That] declaration continues to speak for itself."

    But Armand L. Mauss, a sociologist from Pullman, Wash., who is president of the Mormon History Association, said in an interview that he has talked with dozens of black Mormons who believe that some Mormon leaders and laity still view blacks as inferior.

    Mauss said that some of the teachings did not originate with Mormons but with the Protestant groups from which Mormons converted. "Every major Protestant denomination in history has taught that blacks are descendants of Cain and Ham," he said.

    Yet teachings that "died a natural death" over time among Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians and others, he said, have lingered in Mormonism as indicated by books published as recently as 10 years ago.

    "The only way to neutralize what's out there is a public repudiation" of earlier doctrines, said Mauss, who is white.

    Lawrence Mamiya, professor of religion and Africana studies at Vassar College, agreed in a telephone interview with most of Mauss's assessment. "All white denominations" at some time have used the curse of Ham to justify slavery or racist attitudes, Mamiya said. "It's not so much that it was officially preached but that it existed in the culture."

    This "mythology has never really disappeared," Mamiya said. It resurfaced during the unrest of the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s and "is still alive today, particularly among many fundamentalist groups."

    Mormon arguments over race come at a time when church membership is blossoming in Africa and other developing areas that have predominantly nonwhite populations. Spokesman Don LeFevre said the 10 million-member church does not identify members by race and has no idea of the racial breakdown of its constituency.

    In February, Hinckley completed a six-day tour of Africa, where the church has 112,000 members in 32 countries -- most of whom have joined since 1978, LeFevre said. More recently, Hinckley addressed a regional conference of the NAACP -- a first for a Mormon leader.

    But last weekend's panelists, meeting at the Washington Marriott, said some issues are better left alone, including trying to squeeze an apology from the church hierarchy. "I would like to erase the past 200 years of racism in this country, but no, I can't do it," Powell said, adding that he had a personal revelation of the church's validity when he converted in 1993. "Regardless of past policy, this is a true church."

    Gladys Newkirk, Theodore's wife and a pharmaceutical representative from Suitland, said she has seen numerous cases of the church helping unemployed African Americans find and keep jobs since she joined 10 years ago.

    As an African American, "I've never experienced any problems in this church," she said. "I don't need an apology. . . . We're the result of an apology."

    Cleeretta Smiley, a doctor of holistic medicine in Kensington and a Mormon since 1975, three years before the church's race declaration, was the only panelist to directly address the church's old teachings on race, calling them "damnable heresies." But she said that any generation of believers is capable of "misinterpretations" of scripture and revelation and agreed that it's time to put the matter to rest.

    "We are all speaking from our hearts," she said.

    Gregory Prince, a medical researcher in Rockville who helped plan the four-day conference, said he gave the panel no guidelines other than to speak about their experiences in the church. He looked perplexed when asked after the session about the panel's position on the question of retracting old doctrines.

    "I was surprised at how strongly they articulated their feelings," said Prince, who read a paper by Lester Bush, a longtime advocate of racial equality in the church who was unable to attend. Theirs, he said, is "one voice we need to listen to."

    http://www.lds-mormon.com/lds_race.shtml

  2. #22

    Re: Mormonism, LDS, Utah, Joseph Smith & "Bring 'Um Young"

    Good thing that God is the Author of the Laws of Physics and all other scientific Laws else there would not have been anything for mankind and the science community to discover.

    Quote Originally Posted by govnn.com View Post
    "ulisscarple — April 16, 2009 — Mormons Love to toot their own horns about Hurricane Katrina and what they did as aid workers in the aftermath of the storm. Well there is another bigger message about MORmONISM in the storm track that goes clear back to 1820.



    The Scientific versus the Not So Scientific. Science establishes fact / truth and dispels myth. Everytime you see a satellite image of a weather system on the news, it also shows that Joseph Smith really was full of CRAP. "

    More...

  3. #23
    Senior Member Michael's Avatar
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    what is the deal with Mormons

    What response can we expect from Mormons ?

  4. #24

    Re: what is the deal with Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    What response can we expect from Mormons ?
    Michael,
    Mormons like Jehovah Witnesses are not a part of the Assembly or Body of Christ. They to, have anti-Christ doctrines within their Mormon belief system. Probably the easiest way you can understand the Mormon religion is the "Banned Mormon Cartoon" or should we say the once banned cartoon which makes up the first six minutes or so of the video posted below.

    The only thing that I know has changed since this cartoon was made many years ago is that blacks are now accepted into the Mormon church. Crossman


  5. #25

    Re: what is the deal with Mormons

    I have heard nothing but horrible things about Mormons. Has the 'Cain was cursed with black skin' quote ever been verified from there book?

  6. #26

    Re: what is the deal with Mormons

    Quote Originally Posted by K-2 View Post
    I have heard nothing but horrible things about Mormons. Has the 'Cain was cursed with black skin' quote ever been verified from there book?
    The only Mormons I've ever met were hippy scum, literally.

    From what I can find according to wikipedia it was supposed to be written in Bruce R. McConkie's 1966 edition of Mormon Doctrine.



    "Of the two-thirds who followed Christ, however, some were more valiant than others ....Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin (Moses 5:16-41; 12:22). Noah's son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood (Abraham 1:20-27). Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. (Abra. 1:20-27.) The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them (Moses 7:8, 12, 22), although sometimes negroes search out the truth, join the Church, and become by righteous living heirs of the celestial kingdom of heaven. President Brigham Young and others have taught that in the future eternity worthy and qualified negroes will receive the priesthood and every gospel blessing available to any man.

    The present status of the negro rests purely and simply on the foundation of pre-existence. Along with all races and peoples he is receiving here what he merits as a result of the long pre-mortal probation in the presence of the Lord....The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man's origin. It is the Lord's doing. [page 526-527]"


    But when I looked it up on Archive.org http://archive.org/details/MormonDoctrine1966 it wasn't there. Maybe the Mormons got desperate and decided to let blacks in so they removed it..? It wouldn't surprise me.

  7. #27
    Senior Member frey#89's Avatar
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    Re: what is the deal with Mormons

    So well written Archtype. In my opinion I believe race is our religion and uniform. The Mormons were and now just another Joo run Judeo church. Average churches in Society at that time had a understanding that kind after kind was respectable. A place to exist safe from violence and misery is the purpose of any religion or government.
    The books of Yahweh reads do not pervert the straight way of Yahweh.

  8. #28
    Senior Member frey#89's Avatar
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    Re: Mormonism, LDS, Utah, Joseph Smith & "Bring 'Um Young"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pastor Bill View Post
    I think a combination of Judeo influence and the whole guilt over slavery thing that coloreds have been using to get their way.
    I noticed the argument has changed about niggers the past 8 eight years. My opinion is that people back then deep deep inside refused to believe it could get this bad. Something could change if we keep our eyes closed and remain in a state of fear. We could just tough it out somehow as a 1970s disaster movie in the 70s or 80s. We racialists know for sure in our hearts that genocide of our race is a fact and accept this better than our kinsmen about eight years ago in my opinion.
    My opinion goes for 20, 30 or 40 years ago too.

  9. #29

    Re: Mormonism, LDS, Utah, Joseph Smith & "Bring 'Um Young"

    New Asian-American, Brazilian apostles make Mormon history

    "The Mormon church made history and injected a bit of diversity into a previously all-white top leadership panel on Saturday by selecting the first-ever Latin-American apostle and the first-ever apostle of Asian ancestry."

    The choices triggered excitement among a contingent of Mormons who for years have been hoping for the faith's top leadership to be more representative of a religion that has more than half of the its 16 million members outside the United States.

    "It's a sign that the church is for everyone," said Guilherme De Castro, a 37-year-old Mormon from Brazil who was in attendance for the announcement. "It doesn't matter where you are from or the way you look."

    The selections come during a two-day conference happening as the faith grapples with heightened scrutiny about its handling of sexual abuse reports and one-on-one interviews between local lay leaders and youth."


    https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-co...050209721.html

  10. #30
    Senior Member frey#89's Avatar
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    Re: Mormonism, LDS, Utah, Joseph Smith & "Bring 'Um Young"

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    New Asian-American, Brazilian apostles make Mormon history

    "The Mormon church made history and injected a bit of diversity into a previously all-white top leadership panel on Saturday by selecting the first-ever Latin-American apostle and the first-ever apostle of Asian ancestry."

    The choices triggered excitement among a contingent of Mormons who for years have been hoping for the faith's top leadership to be more representative of a religion that has more than half of the its 16 million members outside the United States.

    "It's a sign that the church is for everyone," said Guilherme De Castro, a 37-year-old Mormon from Brazil who was in attendance for the announcement. "It doesn't matter where you are from or the way you look."

    The selections come during a two-day conference happening as the faith grapples with heightened scrutiny about its handling of sexual abuse reports and one-on-one interviews between local lay leaders and youth."


    https://www.yahoo.com/news/mormon-co...050209721.html
    I thought came to mind about Mormons. I figure it is a syndrome of not going far enough in seeking the face of Yahweh. Many of our racial kinsmen are guilty of just being satisfied with say not eating pork being good at not being in adultery ect.... The the real important goals of living free of Babylon financially, home schooling, racial Identity they never go that far in seeking Yahweh,

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