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Thread: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

  1. #1

    Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?


    I really love your site. I thought your understanding of Scripture was awesome and that you guys are doing a great job. However, your interpretation of Genesis 6 is completely off, and I pray that because of this the sheep are not lead astray. I say this because if your students, or anyone, understood what the book of Enoch actually means they would know what to expect from the evil one, and how this is a extremely spiritual / physical war we are in right now.

    Angels don't have DNA?

    Why did the church suppress the Book of Enoch? After all, there are various references to Enoch throughout the Old and New Testament ...

    There are those who believed all the giant offspring and offspring of the fallen angels were destroyed during the flood. Not true. The Philistines were hybrids, giants i.e. Goliath. As were most of the races that Joshua and Israel had to conquer once Israel were freed from Egypt. The giants never went out of existence, they just went "underground" to return later, now, during these last days. ...


    The original letter goes on at length quoting multiple sources, who in turn quote multiple apocrypha writings, not just the Book of Enoch, to "prove" that angels fathered a race of giants. I decided it wasn't worth quoting in whole.

    The Book of Enoch is listed among the pseudoepigraphal (false authorship) works. There are a number of these works dating from time between the Old and New Testaments and extending into the first few centuries after the church was established. Using the name of a biblical character as the author of the work was a way to lend "credibility" to its contents. Very few people actually believe the book of Enoch was written by Enoch; after all, for the book to exist it would have to have survived the flood. One early Christian writer, Tertullian, who believed it to be inspired Scripture, acknowledged this problem around 198 A.D. "I am aware that the Scripture of Enoch, which has assigned this order of action to angels, is not received by some. For it is not admitted into the Jewish canon, either. I suppose they did not think that, having been written before the deluge, it could have safely survived that worldwide calamity, the destroyer of all things. If that is the reason for rejecting it, let them remember that Noah, who survived the deluge, was the great-grandson of Enoch himself ... There is still this consideration to warrant our assertion of the genuineness of this Scripture: [Noah] could equally have rewritten it, under the Spirit's inspiration, if it had been destroyed by the violence of the deluge."

    Note that Tertullian admits that the Jews never accepted the Book of Enoch as authentic and that Christians of his time period also rejected it. You will find people stating that the Book of Enoch was well known by early Christian writers. Such is true. But they skip over the fact that most rejected the Book of Enoch as inspired writings. For example, Athanasius, Origen, and Jerome argued that the Book of Enoch, while interesting, was not from God. In fact, it appears that Tertullian and Augustine are about the only early writers who thought the work inspired and Augustine waffled on the point at times.

    There are several books that go by the name "The Book of Enoch." The one most people refer to are copies found in Ethiopia in 1773. It is believed to be a translation of a Greek text that was in turn a translation of an Aramaic or Hebrew text. Among the Dead Sea scrolls were small fragments of this large book (parts of chapter 2 verses 12-14 and chapter 3 verses 13-16). There were also other documents which cited portions of the Book of Enoch which show the book existed before Christ. Most scholars date it to between 300 B.C. and 100 B.C. However, it must be emphasized that only small fragments of the Aramaic text exists. We don't know how the entire Book of Enoch read in Aramaic.

    Larger portions of the Book of Enoch have survived in Greek, but again not nearly the whole. The only whole version are the Ethiopian translations. Scholars have compared the translation to both the Aramaic fragments and the Greek fragments and have decided that the Ethiopian translation is fairly, but not completely, accurate.

    Most scholars note that the Book of Enoch, as it currently exists, is a disjointed work. It doesn't have a unifying flow that would characterize something written by one author. It is generally agreed that it is a composition of multiple authors, but exactly who wrote which portions is heavily debated.

    The only reason for considering the Book of Enoch is a statement from the book of Jude: "Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him"" (Jude 14-15). First, please note that Jude does not state he is quoting from a writing of Enoch. He states that he is quoting a statement of Enoch. Since there are multiple Enochs mentioned in the Bible, he makes it clear that the statement comes from the Enoch who was the seventh descendent from Adam. If it wasn't a quote from a book, then how did Jude know what Enoch said? The simple answer is that if we accept that Jude is inspired, then these words were given to him directly from the Holy Spirit (I Corinthians 2:12-13). It is the same means how Moses, ascribed to being the recorder of Genesis, was able to write the words of people who lived hundreds of years before him.

    Enoch 1:9 states, "And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment upon all, and to destroy all the ungodly: and to convict all flesh of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed, and of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." The wording is similar enough to Jude to get people excited that this must be Jude's source. However, as George H. Schodde notes in his book on the Book of Enoch (1882), Jude's citation is not a literal reproduction. This then leaves supporters of the Book of Enoch with a quandary: is their Ethiopian copy a bad copy or will they say that Jude was bad at quoting (i.e. not inspired) which would then remove support for their book? Another possibility is that Enoch's statement was a part of Jewish oral traditions. The Book of Enoch recorded it as it was currently known and Jude wrote what was actually said. If this possibility was true, then it would say that Jewish oral traditions were remarkably good to retain a statement this close to the correct version.

    And then there is another possibility that hasn't been resolved. In all the fragments of the Book of Enoch, both Aramaic and Greek, none contain Enoch 1:9. The only version to have it is the Ethiopian translations. There is insufficient evidence to determine if someone after Jude modified the text used for the Ethiopian translation to make it more realistic in appearance or if it is original. In fact, there is a large debate about whether a person knowledgeable of Christianity added "enhancements" to an older copy of the Book of Enoch, producing the current version. The lack of textual evidence makes it difficult to settle the questions.

    Another attempt to justify the Book of Enoch is to compile a list of similar catch phrases between it and the New Testament writers. Supposedly, the use of similar terms would indicate familiarity with the Book of Enoch. However, the phrases are short and are found throughout the Old Testament. For example, several authors try to draw a conclusion from the phrase "son of man," but this phrase is used heavily in Ezekiel and in the Psalms it is connected with the Messiah. All the phrase does is show that the author(s) of the Book of Enoch were familiar with the Bible.

    If we assume the scholars are correct in dating the book between 300 B.C. and 100 B.C., then an important problem arises concerning the legitimacy of the text. God said that there would be a period of time when prophecy would cease. "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord GOD, "that I will send a famine on the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD. They shall wander from sea to sea, And from north to east; They shall run to and fro, seeking the word of the LORD, but shall not find it" (Amos 8:11-12). Because so many claimed to be prophets and were not, God declared, "Thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who make my people stray; who chant "Peace" while they chew with their teeth, but who prepare war against him who puts nothing into their mouths: therefore you shall have night without vision, and you shall have darkness without divination; the sun shall go down on the prophets, and the day shall be dark for them. So the seers shall be ashamed, and the diviners abashed; indeed they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer from God" (Micah 3:5-7). Malachi was the last acknowledged prophet of the Old Testament. Until the coming of John and Jesus prophecy disappeared. The apocrypha book, I Maccabees, confirms this: "So there was great distress in Israel, such as had not been since the time that prophets ceased to appear among them" (I Maccabees 9:27). "The Jews and their priests have resolved that Simon should be their leader and high priest forever, until a trustworthy prophet should arise" (I Maccabees 14:41). If the Book of Enoch was written during this period of silence, then it could not be an inspired book.

    If the Book of Enoch was truly written by Enoch, it would be the oldest piece of Scripture; long predating the writings of Moses. Yet, there is no mention of the book or hint of the book's existence prior to years of silence. A book of God becoming lost or hidden runs counter to what the Scriptures teach about God's word. "Concerning Your testimonies, I have known of old that You have founded them forever" (Psalm 119:152). "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever" (Isaiah 40:8). "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled" (Matthew 5:17-18). Yet the Book of Enoch was missing from action, not only before the years of silence, but also after a few centuries from the founding of the church. It lacks the characteristic of endurance promised to God's word.

    If the Book of Enoch was written during the years of silence, then it contains a falsehood. It claims to be written by someone who died thousands of years prior. This contradicts another characteristic of God's word. "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth" (John 17:17). God doesn't need pretense. If this book claims to be written by Enoch and was not, then there is a major problem. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God" (II Timothy 3:16). The word "inspiration" means that it comes by the breath of God. In other words, all Scriptures comes straight from God's mouth. The very words written are the ones selected by God. "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (I Corinthians 2:12-13). To have the writer give a false name would mean that a lie came from the mouth of God. However, the Scriptures states God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) -- not will not lie, He cannot lie.

    The real test of inspiration, though, was given by Moses. "If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods' -which you have not known-'and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul" (Deuteronomy 13:1-3). In other words Moses is stating that God does not contradict Himself. Thus, one manner of testing the validity of a prophet is to see if his writing is consistent with what is known to be from God.

    Let us take a simple case: Using the dates recorded in Genesis 5, we learn that Enoch was born roughly 622 years after the creation of the world. He lived 365 years on the Earth before God took him (Genesis 5:23-24). And yet, the Book of Enoch contains a supposed account of the birth of Noah. It has Enoch telling Methuselah, "'And now, my son, go and announce to thy son Lamech, that this son who is born is really his, and that this is not a falsehood.' And when Methuselah had heard the words of his father Enoch -- for he had shown him everything that was secret -- he returned, after his having seen him, and called the name of that son Noah, for he will make glad the earth for all destruction" (Enoch 107:2-3). The problem is that Noah was born around the year 1056, about 69 years after Enoch departed this earth. The event could not have happened according to Genesis! (See the "Lineage of the Patriarchs" for a chart of births and deaths).

    The Book of Enoch has angels marrying earthly women (chapter 6), but Jesus stated, "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven" (Mark 12:25). Angels do not marry -- another contradiction to the Bible.

    The Book of Enoch states that sin came from the intermixing of angel seed and man's seed. Lamech is told to hide so that his pure seed may be preserved. God would then wipe the world with a flood, thus removing sin. (chapter 10). The Bible states that sin comes from breaking God's law. "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness" (I John 3:4). Sin entered the world because Adam and Eve broke the commandment of God. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12). So instead of sin entering the world through one man, the Book of Enoch has sin being taught to men by 200 fallen angels (chapter 8). By the way, your own assertion that giants later mentioned in the Bible shows that the angelic misfits were not wipe out contradicts what the Book of Enoch claims. Noah's line was supposed to be pure and the Bible says only Noah and his family were saved. So where did these later day giants come from?

    Chapter 22 of the Book of Enoch has the realm of the dead divided into four areas: 1) Righteous martyrs, such as Abel, 2) The righteous who were not martyrs, 3) sinners who died without suffering the consequence of their sin, and 4) sinners who had suffered as the result of their sin. Interestingly, of those in the last class it is said, "but their spirits shall not be slain in the day of judgment nor shall they be raised from thence" (Enoch 22:13). However, the Lord Jesus stated that realm of the dead is divided into two states (Luke 16:19-31). In addition, the New Testament is quite clear that all will face judgment. "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth --those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation" (John 5:28-29). "I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust" (Acts 24:15). Hence, we find two more contradictions with the Bible.

    The Book of Enoch also contains internal contradictions. Enoch 6:7-8 gives a list of the leading fallen angels: "And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel." The list is later repeated in Enoch 69:2-3, "And behold the names of those angels [and these are their names: the first of them is Samjaza, the second Artaqifa, and the third Armen, the fourth Kokabel, the fifth Turael, the sixth Rumjal, the seventh Danjal, the eighth Neqael, the ninth Baraqel, the tenth Azazel, the eleventh Armaros, the twelfth Batarjal, the thirteenth Busasejal, the fourteenth Hananel, the fifteenth Turel, and the sixteenth Simapesiel, the seventeenth Jetrel, the eighteenth Tumael, the nineteenth Turel, the twentieth Rumael, the twenty-first Azazel." The first list has nineteen names, the second has twenty-one. In addition, many of the names are quite different. Such internal contradictions indicates that God as the single author of Scripture is not behind the Book of Enoch.

    Therefore, because the Book of Enoch is a book written by man without the inspiration of God, it is has not been accepted as Scripture by Jews or Christians. The evidence stands heavily against it. To use it as a source to understand the Bible is ridiculous. - Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

  2. #2
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    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    I use the book of Enoch because he's mentioned in the Bible...

    Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
    And considered worthy...

    Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
    Quoted by Jude...

    Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
    Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
    ...and found alongside the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    That's good enough for me.
    “The righteous mother of the seven children spake also as follows to her offspring: I was a pure virgin, and went not beyond my father’s house; but I took care of the built-up rib. No destroyer of the desert, or ravisher of the plain, injured me; nor did the destructive, deceitful, snake, make spoil of my chaste virginity; and I remained with my husband during the period of my prime.” (4 Maccabees 18:7-8)

  3. #3

    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    That only mentions the ''person''(he) Enoch not the ''Book of Enoch''

    If the Book of Enoch is a true resource then why is it not in the Bible - why is it non-canonical?

    Shouldn't our focus Just be what is in the Bible? - And not what is not included?

    Non-Canonical books are a good read...

  4. #4
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    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    I think the reason that it was non-canonical was simply by choice of CATHOLIC leaders who were under the rule of Constantine at the time. Constantine is well known for adding small portions of Christianity to a pagan culture, thus creating many false idols that are still served today. Being that Enoch is mentioned more than just once in both the Old and New covenants, AND mentioned being 7th from Adam, gives significant credibility to the book itself. There was another Enoch in scripture that was begat through Cain: Gen 4:17 KJV "And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch." Again, being mentioned as '7th from ADAM' clues the reader as to the more righteous of the two. Dr. Wesley Swift has many a great sermon on Enoch, I highly recommend seeking them out.

    Also, you reference Noah's flood as being a literal worldwide event. I was under the impression that CI followers understood that this was a localized event. Happening in the Tarim Basin due to the physical nature of cataclysmic plate shifts, and a downpouring of the rains into four major rivers. Recent discoveries in the field of archaeology have uncovered evidence to support OUR viewpoint. there is much more evidence than just the wiki link here. The region today was thought to be "uninhabitable" because of the state of the soil and surrounding area. Also, being that these mummies are nearly 4000 years old, that would place them in the timeframe of Noahs deluge.

    It really doesn't matter if the jews have ever accepted ANY of our Bibles books as canonical. They are seeds of the 'evil one', and only seek to twist and abuse our pure faith and culture. Anyone in Identity that doesn't see this is still blind, therefore by implying that the jews' acceptance of OUR book is falling into their hands as an unwitting pawn for them to move.

    The rest of the worlds history should be suffice to prove that the flood wasn't worldwide. The Chinese dynasties date back as far as the neolithic period, which began in 9500 BC. The African culture was beginning to develop as far distant as 10,000 BC. If the flood was truly worldwide, how then do we explain the existence of peoples in certain regions of the world that were left untouched? Also, Pastor Visser did a great sermon title Noahs Flood: Flesh or Beast, you should really check it out. In it there is in depth study into the meaning of the passages concerning that time. It wasn't only '2 of every animal' that went onto the ark... there were also '7 of every clean animal' as well. Knowing that the beasts of the field were a lesser race of people, they could be considered 'animal' as well. Even to this day, I can think of a race that STILL behaves like such.

    Scientifically, if the water really was 35-40 feet higher than the tallest mountains, then where did all that water get off to? Mt. Everest is over 5 miles high, and every ounce of moisture at that elevation is frozen solid. This would mean that the upper several miles of the flood waters would have been frozen solid as well, and since Everest is never green at the peak, I would assume it would still be frozen solid. Also, the sheer pressure of the water on the surface of the earth would completely destroy any root systems or nutrients in the soil. Thus, causing a very rapid decay of the earths life sustaining properties.

    How did the human population rebound so fast? Genealogies in Genesis put the Tower of Babel about 110 to 150 years after the Flood [Gen 10:25, 11:10-19]. How did the world population regrow so fast to make its construction (and the city around it) possible? Similarly, there would have been very few people around to build Stonehenge and the Pyramids, rebuild the Sumerian and Indus Valley civilizations, populate the Americas, etc.

    Sorry to have digressed so much, but I wanted to point out some errors in your assumptions before moving on to Enoch.

    The Book of Enoch was in existence centuries before the birth of Christ and yet is considered by many to be more Christian in its theology than Jewish, as far as 'Churchianity' is concerned. It was considered scripture by many early Christians. The earliest literature of the so-called "Church Fathers" is filled with references to this mysterious book. The early second century "Epistle of Barnabus" makes much use of the Book of Enoch. Second and Third Century "Church Fathers" like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Origin and Clement of Alexandria all make use of the Book of Enoch. Tertullian (160-230 C.E) even called the Book of Enoch "Holy Scripture". The Ethiopic Church even added the Book of Enoch to its official canon. It was widely known and read the first three centuries after Christ. This and many other books became discredited after the Council of Laodicea. And being under ban of the authorities, afterwards it gradually passed out of circulation.

    At about the time of the Protestant Reformation, there came to be a renewed interest in the Book of Enoch which had long since been lost to the modern world. By the late 1400's rumors began to spread that somewhere a copy of the long lost Book of Enoch might still exist. During this time many books arose claiming to be the long lost book and were later found to be forgeries.

    The return of the long lost Book of Enoch to the modern western world is credited to the famous explorer James Bruce, who in 1773 returned from six years in Abyssinia with three Ethiopic copies of the lost book. In 1821 Richard Laurence published the first English translation. The famous R.H. Charles edition was published in 1912. In the following years several portions of the Greek text surfaced. Then with the discovery of cave 4 of the Dead Sea Scrolls, seven fragmentary copies of the Aramaic text were discovered.

    There are scholars who believe the Book of Enoch was published before the Christian era by some great unknown of Semetic race, who believing himself to be inspired in a post-prophetic age, borrowed the name of an antediluvian patriarch to authenticate his own enthusiastic forcast of the coming Messiah. The Book of Enoch is divided into five basic parts, but it is the The Book of Parables (37-71) which gives scholars the most trouble for it is primarily concerned with a figure called "the messiah"; "the righteous one"; "the chosen one" and "the son of man."

    The Book of Enoch Chapter 46:1-2 [1] There I beheld the Ancient of days whose head was like white wool, and with him another, whose countenance resembled that of a man. His countenance was full of grace, like that of one of the holy angels. Then I inquired of one of the angels, who went with me, and who showed me every secret thing, concerning this Son of man; who he was; whence he was; and why he accompanied the Ancient of days. [2] He answered and said to me, This is the Son of man, to whom righteousness belongs; with whom righteousness has dwealt; and who will reveal all the treasures of that which is concealed: for the Lord of spirits has chosen him; and his portion has surpassed all before the Lord of spirits in everlasting uprightness."

    Surely, no man is able to truly say that it is NOT of Yahweh, though there is little evidence that is is. We are in the days of Sodom and Egypt, and knowledge is being increased amongst our people at an alarming rate. Some see different truths than others, and this is the beauty of it, through kinship we will change the way of the world. Perhaps these books, which are suddenly getting more credence than before, are a sign of the times. I think only through prayer and study will an Israelite discern truth from fiction. Good studies in Yahshua's name.
    James 1:22 - "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."

  5. #5

    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    I love the work of Enoch.

  6. #6
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    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    Enoch's Walk of Faith [2009] explains that the prophet Enoch was taken by Yahweh for the purpose of receiving visions concerning our latter age. This sermon provides clarity on the Nephilim ( or "the Watchers" ) of Genesis 6 while proving the importance of reading ALL scripture, including non-canonized texts. This casual study uses the Bible and several books of Enoch to stress the importance of faith.

    coven30 | 2012

  7. #7

    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    I suggest all Christians read the Book of Enoch at least once.

  8. #8

    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    Dr. Wesley Swift has an interesting view of Enoch;

    "And so it was that Enoch who had taught the Sabaeans (they lived in Arabia), the Mysteries of the Gospel, and how God had enriched it in the Star’s and as He had bestowed it in His Word. And how God told him and Job to build a Pyramid and a Pillar also, to mark this tremendous Fountain of Wisdom. So Enoch formed a Mystery School of intense Wisdom, devout men, studied here who wanted to know the Mysteries of God. Men who were of the Healing Ministry and therefore they were Physicians, that were very Wise in handling of life out of herbs. They were also Astronomers all, and in this capacity they served the Most High God. There were referred to as the School of Light and they were called Magi. They followed Magister...meaning the Great Light. Their leaders had been arriving in their order under the same School of Wisdom.

    When Enoch went down into Egypt and built the Temple of On and later the great city of On, then the Pyramid and the Sphinx the pattern that was with him and Job was the Great Temple of Zendera which had all the stars of the heaven from the first to the seventh magnitude across its vaulted Blue Glory. Here in the Azure blue of the top of this great Temple were the stars in their positions as we would see them as we would travel through the ecliptic and take our course through the cycles of our earth’s travels. Here were all the Sign’s of the Zodiac and also suspended were the movements of the Planets, and they knew how many planets were there.....even though it wasn’t until 1932 that once again they found Pluto in the sky and referred to it as a planet."

    Quote from Swift's STORY OF THE 4 WISEMEN '66

  9. #9

    Re: Why Don't you use the Book of Enoch?

    I enjoy Enoch as well. I enjoy it for the same reasons as I do Job & Revelations. Just because the Vatican doesn't approve, doesn't mean it isn't valid.
    Their valiant ones shall cry without: the ambassadors of peace shall weep bitterly- Isaiah 33:7

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