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Thread: The Controversial Paul

  1. #1

    The Controversial Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Obadiah 1:18 View Post
    Paul may have been a pharisee in name but not in deed, and that is a crucial difference. Before his conversion, he was persecuting Christians, but after his conversion, he was persecuted as a Christian. Further, He was called to be a Christian by the audible voice of Christ Himself, and following his conversion to Christianity was accepted into the fold by no less a man than Barnabas, who presented him to the disciples and explained to them how confidently and courageously Paul had been been preaching in the name of Jesus.
    In one version of Paul’s conversion stories, his companions heard a voice from heaven speak to him: The men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. (Acts 9:7) The audible voice from heaven that spoke to Saul did not declare scripture but rather quoted a Greek expression "to kick against pricks" (found in the play, Bacchae, by Euripides, 405 BC) and told him to go into the city to find out what to do.

    In another version of the story, however, none of his companions even heard a voice: Those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid, but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. (Acts 22:9)

    In a third version of the story, there is no mention of anyone hearing a voice but Saul. This time the voice announces a ministry commission to him, which begins: “But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee….” (Acts 26:16) According to this version, his ministry is to include telling people about this vision and about future visions and revelations he will have. Again, there is no mention of anyone else hearing this audible voice and ministry commission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obadiah 1:18 View Post
    Paul couldn't have made it plainer that the directives he gave in his epistles were God's commandments.
    Paul’s own testimony that he was speaking on behalf of God is not verification that Yahweh gave him the authority to establish church directives. Paul, by his own testimony, was not always writing under the inspiration of the Spirit of God, did not always tell the truth, and changed as needed to accommodate the opinions of men. Paul was not infallible.

    Paul made the following statements about himself:

    What I am saying, I am not saying as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. (2 Corinthians 11:17)

    Nevertheless, crafty fellow that I am, I took you in by deceit. (2 Corinthians 12:16)

    But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? (Romans 3:7)

    I have become all things to all men…. I also please all men in all things…. (1 Corinthians 9:22, 10:33)

    Quote Originally Posted by Obadiah 1:18 View Post
    Paul was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.
    Paul’s own witness that he was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost is not proof that he was. The evidence is in whether his writings agree with or contradict the Law, the Psalms, the Prophets, or the sayings, doctrines, actions, and commandments of Jesus Christ. Some of his writings certainly line up, but some do not. Evidently, sometimes he wrote under the influence of the Spirit of God, and sometimes he did not.

    On the other hand, Jesus, who definitely was authorized by Yahweh to establish church doctrine, upheld what was spoken in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. The scriptures, the audible voice of Yahweh, His finished work on the cross, His resurrection, and His ascension all bear witness of Him. He is, in fact, infallible.

    If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. There is another that beareth witness of me (John the Baptist); and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. …But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. …Search the scriptures; …they are they which testify of me. …I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:31-37)

    And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. Then a voice came from heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Mark 1:10-11)

    Jesus said, “Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.” Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him. Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake.” (John 12:28-30)

    For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. (2 Peter 1:17-18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Obadiah 1:18 View Post
    Does that also go for people who reject the doctrine of Christ that was given through Paul?
    There is no legitimate church doctrine given by Jesus Christ through Paul. Disciples of Jesus have only been authorized to preach in agreement with the finished work of Jesus Christ. Paul was not authorized to institute doctrine for Yahweh’s people, as Jesus was. There are no prophecies in scripture telling of anyone to come after Jesus authorized to establish church structure, leadership hierarchy, ecclesiastical rules, spiritual guidelines, or religious statutes. There was no sanction given to anyone following Jesus to add to, edit, or repeal the commandments, sayings, and doctrines of Jesus.

    I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them…. (John 17:4, 8)

    Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On judgment day many will tell me, “Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.” But I will reply, “I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized.” (Matthew 7:21-23)

    The scriptures give no authorization for anyone adding to or taking away from the doctrines of Jesus. Rather, Jesus left His disciples clear instructions on what to preach. None of them were given permission to establish new doctrines, rules, or guidelines. They were only authorized to preach in agreement with the Law, the Prophets, the Psalms, and the teachings of Jesus, who fulfilled all that was written of Him to fulfill.

    And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (Luke 24:44)

    And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you….” (Matthew 28:18-20)

    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. (Mark 16:15-20)

    If ye love me, keep my commandments. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 14:15, 21, 15:10)

  2. #2
    Obadiah 1:18
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    Thumbs up William Finck Versus the Paul Bashers

    This is an exhaustive rebuttal to the heretical claims of Paul bashers, written by Bill Finck, who draws upon many authoritative sources, including classic texts and the writings of Clifton Emahiser. If you have any doubts about the scriptural validity of Paul's epistles, or parts thereof, this will eliminate them.

    DOWNLOAD

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  4. #4

    Re: The Controversial Paul

    Ive always wondered why Paul is such a touchy subject. He wrote most of the New Testament didnt he? Could someone tell me why people dont trust him?

  5. #5
    Obadiah 1:18
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    Re: The Controversial Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Vargio View Post
    Ive always wondered why Paul is such a touchy subject. He wrote most of the New Testament didnt he? Could someone tell me why people dont trust him?
    He stands in the way of female preachers.

  6. #6

    Re: The Controversial Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Vargio View Post
    Ive always wondered why Paul is such a touchy subject. He wrote most of the New Testament didnt he? Could someone tell me why people dont trust him?
    There's a great teaching blog by a fellow Israelite Identist that may be of interest to you called "Thy Weapon of War." Following is a link to his teaching on the Saul/Paul controversy that may shed some light on the subject for you. Contrary to what has been stated repeatedly here, most people don't even consider Paul's view of women in church when "testing the spirits" in regards to him.

    http://thy-weapon-of-war.blogspot.co...see-false.html

  7. #7

    Re: The Controversial Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by DunaMiss View Post
    There's a great teaching blog by a fellow Israelite Identist that may be of interest to you called "Thy Weapon of War." Following is a link to his teaching on the Saul/Paul controversy that may shed some light on the subject for you. Contrary to what has been stated repeatedly here, most people don't even consider Paul's view of women in church when "testing the spirits" in regards to him.

    http://thy-weapon-of-war.blogspot.co...see-false.html
    I was reading an interesting article about Paul by brother Emahiser last night.

    BRITISH CHRISTIANS IN ROME BEFORE PAUL EVER ARRIVED

    The average Christian will be simply astounded with the content of this brochure.
    There are two major points which will amaze them: (1) the fact that there were already
    converted Christians in Rome before Paul ever arrived there, and (2) that the edifice
    where Paul preached in Rome still stands. There are a few informed Christians,
    however, who are aware of these two facts. You may be somewhat skeptical of these
    two concepts, but corroborating historical evidence will be supplied here.

  8. #8

    Re: The Controversial Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Obadiah 1:18 View Post
    He stands in the way of female preachers.
    Very true. He also bashes feminism and faggotry also.

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